For some reason this blog got confused with one about Dabinett Moon - OK she's a horse but nothing to do with Oxus. So I hope I have managed to unlink Dabinett Moon and that this is only Oxus posts.
It does though mean that a couple of recent posts have also got deleted so I am copy pasting them below.
Many thanks to "rallie raidr" "RR" (a rally rider maybe?) for your recent comments - you clearly know the books very well.
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On 18 Oct 2014, RR commented:
Have you been able to narrow down the specific geography of the books at all. I can see Dunkery and Porlock but do you have anymore specifics than that?
Blog owner (David) replied:
Good to hear from you - always glad to hear of someone who likes the books.
I suspect that part of the geography was imaginary - to tie in with the references to Persia and Sohrab and Rustrum.
However there is definitely a Cloud Farm in the area who have B&B facilities.
I even looked at an old railway map to see if there was an obvious Cabool station.
On the 19th Oct RR commented:
Remember the 30 mile bike ride from Taunton station in book 2?
Also the car ride near Dunkery Beacon (and it getting bogged)?
I
agree on the imaginary aspect of the landscape but there appears to be a
real knowledge of the area which makes me think there may have been a
physical connection to the region by one or both girls.
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Having spent many weeks as a child with my head buried in the books, and having re read them all recently, I believe the burning question 'who is Maurice' can be answered by the following evidence.
ReplyDelete1 he knows the geography of the region intimately; so he lives/lived locally for an extended period.
2 He is aware on the return journey from the sea that the cottage is the only house on the road; again local knowledge.
3 He is known to the racing fraternity, and is known as an accomplished rider.
4 He is seen by Jennifer camping in winter; but he must be close enough to home that if the conditions are overly extreme, he can return home without to much trouble or risk of injury.
5 The mention of his dog being walked in London suggests a family background of some wealth or means.
6 He knows the house that is "where the Master of Hounds lives". Most importantly, he knows this house from the river side, so he swims or boats here enough to recognise it from the river, as opposed the the street/driveway aspect.
Therefore I think he is the son of the Master of hounds, the head of the local hunt club......(feel free to post an alternative theory!)
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but the girls themselves said in answer to the question of "who is Maurice" said they had no idea!
DeleteWhere did they say that? I'd be interested to read anything more about them
DeleteThat's a very good bit of detective work and I think you could well be right. Though of course to what extent the girls had thought this all through and to what extent it's happy coincidence is another matter. But it doesn't stop one enjoying the books.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder to what extent both girls would have had time to explore a lot of the moors and surrounding area - remember they were London-based and went to boarding school in Berkshire.
I think we need to retain some of the mystery over Maurice!
The girls' knowledge of geography was a bit vague. When the children arrived at Taunton station they could see the sun rising over Exmoor. But you cannot see Exmoor from Taunton station, and if you could it would be to the west. The sun rises in the east.
ReplyDeleteAnother glaring mistake is the solar eclipse at the time of the full moon, whereas a solar eclipse only happens at the time of the new moon.
Maybe someone at Jonathan Cape should have been paying more attention.
Interestingly Katharine's brother John told me that, as far as he knew, the family never went to Exmoor. They apparently always holidayed in Cornwall...
ReplyDeleteCould they have travelled back via an Exmoor route? These days we often assume travel is car based...maybe it was railway travel in their era? I admit having left England at 11 years old I have no expertise in 1940's domestic holiday travel. I'm merely assuming cars were much less rare in private ownership and also used less for longer journeys.
DeleteHaving checked through The Peerage, I can only see that Katharine had a brother Christopher, there is no mention of a John.
DeleteHe is definitely John. I first heard from him in January 2011 and later met him at his London W8 address. He wrote: "Katharine was the third of four Hull sisters"
DeleteSo an interesting scenario re; her brother John. Although I couldn't see a listing for him in the Peerage, whilst doing some research I came across a Wills and Probate notice in an English newspaper. Her brother John was listed as an executor of her estate.
DeleteMy reading of Far Distant Oxus has led me to suspect that the individual locations may be based on some real location, but that they have been relocated to fit the story line. A convenient starting point is the town of Seabridge which was located near the mouth of the river Oxus which the children rafted down. Seabridge is described as having a Butlin's Holiday Camp and has having a pier with amusements. This would suggest Minehead (the pier was demolished in 1940 after the book was written). If Minehead is Seabridge, then the most likely candidate for the Oxus is the River Avill or a tributory of it which rises in Exmoor in the Wheddon Cross area. But if this is so, where is Bantrain which is described a shabby and industrial and on the Oxus near Seabridge. The location suits Dunster, but not the description. Dunster prides itself as being a archtypal picture postcard village. It may once have had shabby bit next to the river, so maybe should not be written off, -I shall need to investigate further
ReplyDeleteWhat can throw us is that we naturally assume north is up on their map. In fact south is up (the map at the front piece of Escape to Persia plainly says 'to London' to the left of the map). That would be west if north is up!
DeleteIt also has an arrow pointing 'to the Done valley) helping with a general location.
Butlins in Minehead opened in the early 1960's
DeleteLooking at the whole Butlin's situation a little more, the way its described is interesting. For instance, the first Butlins holiday camp was built in the mid 1930's. But the amusement parks preceded the camps by a number of years, from the 20's when Billy Butlin got the license for dodgems in the UK. The way they talk about the 'giant racer' the lighthouse and dodgem cars suggest the Felixstowe park to me, which I understand had a boating pond as well (in its early years, monkey's live on center island but they kept escaping)! This is as far as I can ascertain from available records and old photos. Felixstowe's also had a pier. I'm wondering if the entire concept is lifted from seaside holidays the authors went on, maybe even school trip.
DeleteThank you.
ReplyDeleteHowever I understand from the families of both girls that they used to holiday in Cornwall, not Somerset and I wonder how well they knew Somerset? Maybe they had used their imagination plus, possibly, an ordinance survey map?
Incidentally some (quite a lot I think) of the original artwork, which was held by the family, has now been transferred to the Seven Stories Museum in Newcastle. It is now being catalogued.
For the curious: The Book "What happened to the Brockens" which is referred to on a book jacket, exists in manuscript only and there are no plans to make it public.
https://www.sevenstories.org.uk/blog/placement-corner-the-pamela-whitlock-archive
ReplyDeleteAn interesting item I just came across.
This is VERY interesting because I had heard from Pam's daughter Rose that she was going to lodge the papers at the National Centre for hildrens' books and am glad this has now happened. I do plan to go and look soon. Meanwhile I hope to contact the researcher who is mentioned.
Deletehttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/97319303/pamela-frances-bell
ReplyDeleteThe above link is to the grave site of Pamela Whitlock, who became Pamela Bell on her marriage to John Bell.
ReplyDeleteYoutube has a nice video of the church in Radnage where she is buried for th0se interested.
A little digging through the records;
ReplyDeletethe 1939 census shows Pamela listed as "Student and Authoress" with the address as Braziers Farm Alexandra Road, Chipperfield. Its listed as a grade historic building. I found it on google earth street view, but it took a while as it was dropping a pin in the wrong spot. It looks like it was a model for Cloud Farm or Siestan
Please note, the property is on Tower hill rd, some realignments have occurred over time. It is opposite another substantial building named 'Brazier'
DeleteInterestingly, the best I've been able to find for Katharine Hull is the address "Penmere, Tregurrian, Newquay" which is a small hamlet in Cornwall. There are also 3 domestic servants listed on the census schedule suggesting some degree of wealth. I understand she was the daughter of Sir Hubert Hull (CBE). Again, google earth shows it very well on street view, but with a number of more contemporary dwellings in the hamlet.
ReplyDeleteA little more digging shows the family home of the Hull's was 59 Campden Hill rd, in Kensington. A substantial Victorian (or possibly Edwardian) building. Two of the Hull sisters lived very close to the family home. Judith at Wynnstay Gardens on Allen st, and Katharine at 17 Palace Gate. I'd advise using google street view for good view of the area.
DeleteI came across the following in a work entitled 'literary Cultures and Twentieth Century Childhoods'. It is a series of essays dealing with the child as author. In PDF form, it was a free download so I don't think I've trodden on any legal toes by reposting it here.
ReplyDeleteTwo years after the publication of The Far-Distant Oxus, Whitlock and
Hull provided their own account of its composition in a short essay in The
Horn Book titled “People, Plots and Ponies” (1939). That essay, like
Ransome’s introduction, makes clear that the novel arose not from child-
like inspiration but instead from concerted labor. They write of “the work
it took, the loss of free time, [and] the tricky evasion of school studies”
(353) as well as the “months of concentration” a book requires (356).
This process is not without joy, but it is situated in the business of the
book trade: “we both want to be mixed up with paper and ink and critics
and authors and book catalogues and publishers for the rest of our lives,”
they write. “We have loved signing agreements, getting press cuttings,
buying things we’ve always wanted with our royalties, and looking to see
if shops stock our books. Most of all we have liked the letters we get from
odd people about them, such as the one scrawled in letters an inch high,
‘Dear Madams, I like your book very much’” (356). Whitlock and Hull’s
account of the labor and rewards of authorship both reinforces and chal-
lenges Ransome’s introduction. Like Ransome, the authors emphasize
their labor, but unlike Ransome, they also reveal their ambition for fame
and recognition. Like their mentor, they reap the rewards of the market-
place and even receive fan mail—addressed respectfully to “Madams”—
and this is precisely the success they had hoped for. “[T]o write a book”
seemed “the one thing worth doing,” they write,
Thank you for this research - I had seem something similar.
DeleteToday is a sad day as it marks the 40th anniversary of the passing of Pamela. I was able to light a big fire on a hillside of my property, a beacon, to mark this day.
ReplyDeleteI'm no literary critic, just an ordinary person, but one of the saddest things I find is the sense of hope and excitement that is evident in the Oxus trilogy, only to find later that the author's passed away far too early.
To the families of Katharine Buxton (nee, Hull), and Pamela Frances Bell (nee, Whitlock), we wish you the best and from the millions who have enjoyed the books, we say thank you!
I thoroughly endorse RR's commemoration of Pam - I see that beacons are to be lit all over Britain (and abroad). so it's great that the Queen's jubilee coincides with this anniversary of Pam's death.
ReplyDeleteRegarding your previous comment about the 'son of the real Bridget', was it a reference to Bridget Bodley, who is mentioned in the AR introduction to FDO? AR mentions her twice in the introduction; once as as Bridget Whitlock, then using her correct name.
ReplyDeleteCloud Farm Location.
ReplyDeleteI happened to have time to look at maps from both the late 1800's and early 1900's. This area was very popular for visitors due to the success of Lorna Doone, so there is every chance that it was visited by the authors in their childhood..
Cloud Farm (early maps name it 'Cloud') is a farm plainly visible in the location it is today for as far back as I could go (1880) The moor rises very steeply both behind and in front of the farm as per the girls description. And Malmsmead hill (1274 feet) is very close by as well. There's even a spring listed about where it should be for the kite flying day.
Badgeworthy Water runs past the farm, and joins with the Oare Water just down at Malmsmead. There are a few tributary streams joining it; Bus Combe is one of a few that would suit the location of Peran-Wisa.
Oare Manor - though on the wrong side of the Badgeworthy for Siestan would fit the bill, though its not a red brick house with a 'Queen Anne' door as far as I can see. But the Hull family home at 59 Campden Hill road, Kensignton was!
After the confluence at Malmsmead, the two rivers become the East Lyn river. Further along here towards Lynmouth, is Brendon (Leeford), which an 1880 map shows had a smithy, a mill, Inn, and cottages along the river. A mill and smithy would have been relatively dirty industries and would have dumped their waste into the river, making me think its possibly 'Bantrain', or the inspiration for it. It also has a weir on the old maps, and a substantial bridge.
I'm not certain Lynmouth is Seabridge; I think its possible the town is a conglomerate of a couple of coastal towns drawn both from the area and the popular holiday destinations of the era; think southend-on-Sea or another destination with a pier/fun fair.
Its my belief that the girls used a 'Ransome' model of geography - using real places but moving them or planting them on the map to suit their needs.
Hawkridge is an example here; it exists about 9 miles south/southest beyond Withypool, but might have been moved to suit the required geography. Then again, whats 8-9 miles across the moor on a pony? No big journey at all....
It is a grey morning here, this thirteenth of November. Tonight I have a beacon to light to commemorate the passing of Katharine, forty-five years ago today.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, I say thank you to all members the families of Katharine and Pamela on behalf of all of us.
We never met, we never wrote, we never spoke. I never knew you at all - and yet you both have meant so much to me.
R.I.P. Katharine Hull and Pamela Whitlock; taken far too young.